Thursday, June 22, 2006

Saddam, The Liar

By now you've all heard about the report that banned weapons were found in Iraq. Well, I was posting on this subject back in August of last year. Now to play my own devil's advocate. "It was all pre-Gulf War weapons that were all degraded". Doesn't matter. Saddam was told to destroy all weapons of this nature. He got warning after warning after warning after warning from the U.N. He told the world that he was a good little boy and played by the rules. He lied. Bush knew he was lying. Blair knew he was lying. The Bush/Blair hating world will never admit that Saddam lied.

I also found this PDF from the U.N. last week. In it, the U.N. themselves say that Saddam was moving material out of Iraq before, during and after the invasion in '03. And that they may have found some of it in the Netherlands. I was going to post about it but I couldn't make heads or tails out of what it said. A lot of bureaucratic speak.

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13 comments:

DeoDuce said...

It doesn't matter that we found WMDs in Iraq...the MSM will not report it, and even if they did it would be spun so it wouldn't seem like a big deal. I guess that's why we're here.

Indian Chris said...

We are the real voice of the people.

Opinionnation said...

Here is a Wash.Times report on the pdf you linked: WTimes

Indian Chris said...

I'll be waiting for the Bush lied crowd to apologize, but I won't hold out too much hope.

Za said...

Unusable weapons aren't weapons.

Nice polemics, but no lie.

Za said...

Oh, and to help with the translation, it says that Saddam was selling components from the weapons deemed to be illegal by the UN as scrap.

Gee, wonder why he was doing that?

Za said...

Oh, and further investigation has shown that apparently we already knew these weapons existed (see the Duelfer report, 2004) and were never proof of chemical weapons stockpiles or chemical weapons programs.

So not only is this a rehash of an old story, it's a rehash of an old, DEAD story.

Linky

reagan80 said...

An Iraq war veteran's response to a troll.....

Artillery shells are never stored in "usable" condition. The fuses and propellant are kept separate. Also, mustard gas is what's known as a "persistent" agent, meaning that it retains potency for a long time. In fact, farmers in France are still warned to take care in plowing certain fields that were gassed during WWI because the mustard gas remains active in the soil. Sarin is less persistent, but far more toxic, and 500 shells is about 25 times the number used by Saddam to kill 5,000 Kurds in 1988 (that only took 20), so this is hardly an insignificant number. That's enough sarin and mustard gas to kill every American in Iraq. As for the claims of the administration, the Duelfer report stated that his team could not confirm the presence of WMDs. Since then, we've found 500 banned munitions which Saddam was obligated to account for and destroy and didn't, which means that he was in material breach of the UN resolutions and the cease fire agreement and that the Duelfer report was far from conclusive. Unless that anonymous DOD source is willing to go on the record, I'd take his comment with a salt lick.

The point is, the president said that Saddam had concealed WMDs and sought to maintain the capacity to create more. Nothing that we've learned since going into Iraq has contradicted that claim.

40 said...

Great point Za. The weapons were found before we invaded. They have deteriorated to the point where they were not usable.

But, none of that matters if you are deseperately trying to convince people that 2,500 lives were lost for some kind of reason.

Za said...

Artillery shells are never stored in "usable" condition. The fuses and propellant are kept separate.
Irrelevant, since artillery shells aren't the banned weapon here. The sarin and mustard gas were the components that were not useable.

That's enough sarin and mustard gas to kill every American in Iraq. As for the claims of the administration, the Duelfer report stated that his team could not confirm the presence of WMDs.The Duelfer report accounted for these weapons, stated that they were not a threat - obviously demonstrating that this presented hypothesis is false and that they were not useable. In other words, you are arguing that already accounted for ex-weapons are somehow still a threat.

The point is, the president said that Saddam had concealed WMDs and sought to maintain the capacity to create more.
Even if you are correct on the first count, which I'm not saying you are (and is thoroughly disputed by the intelligence community), the second count HAS been conclusively disproven, through the intelligence documents recently released into public access.

Anonymous said...

za the weapons found were deemed unusable for their original design. meaning they were probably meant to be deployed via artillery, meaning the artillery shells were unusable. the lethal agents within were still quite active and could have been seperated and deployed in another fashion.

Anonymous said...

the weapons we found were leftovers from the operation that occurred immediately before the invasion. saddam moved the bulk of his illegal weapon components into three installations within syria, with help from russia mostly and possibly china. now most likely we have called them out on this and are keeping quiet in order to use this knowledge as a bargaining chip. whether or not we gain anything from keeping this quiet and using it as leverage against the russians and other security council members remains to be seen.

Za said...

za the weapons found were deemed unusable for their original design. meaning they were probably meant to be deployed via artillery, meaning the artillery shells were unusable. the lethal agents within were still quite active and could have been seperated and deployed in another fashion.
This runs contrary to the conclusions of the report - that they weren't indicative of chemical or biological weapons stockpiles.

addam moved the bulk of his illegal weapon components into three installations within syria, with help from russia mostly and possibly china.
This assertion comes from that UN presentation made by Powell, where they used unsourced and relatively unreadable photographs to back the assertion that Saddam was moving WMDs out of the country - something that was never actually factually verified. Given that the "reliable sources" of that talk included a university student's paper...