President Obama declares swine flu a national emergency.
"Never allow a crisis to go to waste. They are opportunities to do big things" - Rahm Emanuel. I wonder what big thing they're going to want to do with this?
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Chris said: I wonder what big thing they're going to want to do with this?
What do you think they are doing with this that they shouldn’t be, Chris?
Shouldn’t the government be taking all necessary precautions to prevent further spread of a global pandemic that is killing healthy young people and pregnant women (i.e. like letting hospitals move emergency rooms offsite to speed treatment and protect non-infected patients)?
That was certainly a stupid thing for Rahm Emanuel to say but to now imply that the President is using a deadly pandemic to suit his own purposes is unreasonable.
We've already seen it in NY. They were trying to force health care workers to take the vaccine against their will. Thankfully it was stopped. So is it really so far-fetched that the federal government could maybe want to try it? I don't think so.
State health officials are not the same thing as the federal government and quite frankly having health care workers vaccinated is something that all reputable medical organizations recommend.
Why not wait for actual evidence of wrongdoing before you criticize the federal government for taking emergency measures to mitigate this very real pandemic?
In all cases it is very wise to be skeptical of your government.
I wonder, Pres. Bush was beaten up for the preperations for Hurricane Katrina, for which there was precious little time to prepare. Will Pres. Obama take the same bashing for failing to be ready for something his administration has had the entire time they have been in office to prepare for?
SSG E said: In all cases it is very wise to be skeptical of your government.
Skeptical, yes. Paranoid, no.
Who's being paranoid? We have the federal gov't and its media allies hyping a strain of flu that is not even as virulent as the seasonal flu. Why? I think it is ok to error on the side of safety and public health, but the gov't and media are taking this too far.
It is true that seasonal influenza kills a lot of people every year. They are mainly seniors who already have a higher mortality rate to begin with. But the swine flu is different. The increased mortality in babies, children and pregnant women is very sobering. That's not because of the numbers of deaths, but because of who is dying.
I agree the media is hyping this (just look at Glenn Beck – though he won’t say for sure, it’s obvious he will be getting vaccinated himself but not without leaving some doubt with his audience) but I believe the government is taking reasonable and necessary steps to mitigate a very real pandemic. Isn't it better to err on the side of caution?
1000 people have died since this thing started. Sad, I know, but it hardly makes this a pandemic. Most of the deaths were individuals with compromised immune systems who had actually contracted pneumonia, or some other ailment, and they then got the flu which made things worse of course.
Beck is irrelevant here. I know he did a show and presented both sides of the argument. He is not hyping the swine flu like some other outlets are. There are some sensational stories out there. One newspaper article I read a few weeks ago compared it to the Spanish Flu. C'mon!
I agree that it is good to error on the side of caution. In fact I thought I already said that. But a national emergency though? It's just going to cause more panic than necessary. People are already taking advantage of the panic. Someone try selling you any fake Tamiflu online yet?
My sone already had the swine flu. He was over it in two days and no one else in the house has contracted it, which surprised me. I think I started to get it, but my freakishly capable immune system must've won that fight.
When I talked to the doctors none of them seemed that concerned. They said we could get the vaccine if we wanted, but there was really no big deal. From what I understand the virus is becoming less virulent and is actually dying off in many parts of the country. What makes it somewhat dangerous is that it is supposed to be easy to spread and younger people are more susceptible to it. Older generations seem to have an immunity to it. It is very simple to protect the most vulnerable people, the younger children and pregnant women. This can be done without the hype.
SSG E: 1000 people have died since this thing started. Sad, I know, but it hardly makes this a pandemic.
A pandemic is not defined by the virulence of an infectious disease but by how wide it spreads through a population. This is a worldwide epidemic and like any flu virus it has the potential to mutate. The World Health Organization and the CDC have correctly declared this outbreak a pandemic.
But a national emergency though?
By law the President is required to declare a state of emergency when he wants to invoke certain executive powers. In addition he is required to specify the statutory authorities to be used to avoid invoking every possible executive emergency power. In this case he declared a national emergency so he could let hospitals move emergency rooms off site to speed treatment and protect non-infected patients.
I’m glad your son is feeling better. My family does plan to get the vaccine and as I understand it it’s still a good idea to get it even if someone in your family has already had H1N1:
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/public/vaccination_qa_pub.htm
You make good points and I am not going to try telling anyone to not get vaccinated. I will likely have the kids vaccinated when it is available in our area.
I am going to error on the side of caution and be skeptical of whatever the gov't tells me. Especially when they continually keep pushing their agenda in the guise of "an emergency" or "crisis". Maybe they are not doing it here. They very well could be acting responsibly based on the information that they have. I cannot know for sure because there is little transparency from gov't these days.
My only concern is that with all of these so-called pandemics being exaggerated over the last several years, people will be desensitized. People will get used to this stuff if we keep calling every new strain of the flu "a pandemic". Then when there is actually a truly dangerous strain people will not take it seriously. They will be saying "what, another pandemic? Whatever!" Maybe I am not taking swine flu as seriously as other people because of the other hyped up pandemics that ended up being a whole lot of nothing. Maybe I am wrong about this one, but I am illustrating my own point (kind of) at the same time.
SSG E said: I am going to error on the side of caution and be skeptical of whatever the gov't tells me.
Again, that’s not healthy skepticism…that’s paranoia. I get my information from my doctor (though he really isn’t available on a daily basis) and the CDC website. I have no evidence that the information they are providing is false or intentionally misleading.
My only concern is that with all of these so-called pandemics being exaggerated over the last several years, people will be desensitized.
What other “so-called pandemics” are you talking about? No other recent flu strains have been declared a pandemic. There are very specific criteria for calling an infectious disease a pandemic.
Why is it paranoia to be skeptical of the gov't? I am making a reasonable judgement call based on history and a proven track record of gov't incompetence. Are you familiar with what happened in the 1970s with flu vaccines?
The bird flu or avian flu and west nile virus outbreaks were overblown. Also the 1976 swine flu "pandemic". There are a lot of examples.
SSG E said: Why is it paranoia to be skeptical of the gov't? I am making a reasonable judgement call based on history and a proven track record of gov't incompetence.
It is paranoia when you automatically assume the information you are getting is wrong or intentionally misleading, without any current evidence (not unrelated examples of past mistakes) to support your assumption.
Again, if the information the CDC is currently putting out about H1N1 is wrong, what is your evidence?
The bird flu or avian flu and west nile virus outbreaks were overblown. Also the 1976 swine flu "pandemic".
Yes they were overblown by the media, but none of them were classified as pandemics (even the one in 1976). As you rightly point out they were outbreaks.
There's the disconnect. I am not assuming that the information is wrong or misleading. I am just being skeptical and looking for more answers or at least more information. I don't think the CDC is intentionally saying something that is not true. I never made that claim. Politicians have a history of exploiting crises (real or imagined) and the current administration has been very open about wanting to exploit crises. That has been my only problem with this.
Outbreak or pandemic, to the general public there is no difference. Most people don't pay close attention to detail like we do. In each case, and probably in this one too, the hype was unwarranted. The media is the major culprit, but the gov't has made some wild claims too. They ran public service announcements regularly during the 1976 swine flu that never really materialized. The vaccine they were pushing was unsafe and actually killed people.
I hope I am right about the flu pandemic being overblown because I don't want people getting sick and dying. I hope people take it seriously without overreacting and take common sense measures to prevent getting sick. That message is getting lost in all of this and the hype is causing more panic than is deserved.
I hope I am wrong about the powers-that-be exploiting this situation for their own gain. I don't need another reason to distrust politicians and bureaucrats. I am merely remaining vigilant.
SSG E said: Outbreak or pandemic, to the general public there is no difference.
But that wasn’t your claim. Your claim was that bird flu, the west Nile virus and the 1976 flu outbreaks were all called pandemics. They were not. But this one actually is.
I hope I am right about the flu pandemic being overblown because I don't want people getting sick and dying.
Again, the word pandemic refers to the spread of a virus, not the severity of the illness caused by the virus.
Flu activity is now widespread in 46 states. Nationwide, visits to doctors for influenza-like-illness are increasing steeply and are now higher than what is seen at the peak of many regular flu seasons. In addition, flu-related hospitalizations and deaths continue to go up nation-wide and are above what is expected for this time of year.
http://www.cdc.gov/H1N1FLU/
I hope people take it seriously without overreacting and take common sense measures to prevent getting sick.
I do too. And part of that is having access to accurate and timely information on the virus. This is exactly what the CDC is doing. It is continuing to monitor the situation carefully, to support the public health response and to gather information about this virus and its characteristics.
I don't think I called them all pandemics, but in either case the viruses were overblown in media and by gov't officials in many instances. The CDC also justifies its existence by being able to define a pandemic so loosely. That's ok though, I think it is fair to say that it helps them error on the side of safety. There needs to be some breathing room in how you define pandemic to adapt to different circumstances.
You make a fair point, but consider this: there may be more reported cases of flu at this point in the year because of the emphasis being placed on the swine flu in the media. Not really a bad thing, I am glad people are going to their doctor, but it can skew the data. A lot of medical professionals I have talked to say they get flooded with people who think that they have swine flu. Most don't, but the awareness has made people go to the doctor or hospital when normally they would not bother to go.
I have no problem with increasing awareness and getting the info out. I just don't think the POTUS needs to be using this as a distraction. All of the measures to ensure resources were allocated to assist the CDC and states in combating the virus could have been enacted without involving the WH.
My faith in gov't is limited, but I don't think any malice or agenda is being propagated by the gov't under the guise of swine flu. After giving this some thought it appears to me that this is more of a diversion than any sort of attempt at exploiting the crisis. Just because they use it as a diversion, it doesn't mean the threat is not real. You make good arguments.
SSG E said: I don't think I called them all pandemics, but in either case the viruses were overblown in media and by gov't officials in many instances.
Technically you said “…all of these so-called pandemics” which I challenged you on.
There needs to be some breathing room in how you define pandemic to adapt to different circumstances.
There is. The World Health Organization uses a series of six phases of pandemic alert as a system for informing the world of the seriousness of the threat and the need to launch progressively more intense preparations and measures. We are at the highest phase right now due to sustained, human-to-human spread over many countries of a new and serious virus.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE53Q59I20090427?sp=true
You make a fair point, but consider this: there may be more reported cases of flu at this point in the year because of the emphasis being placed on the swine flu in the media.
That’s a very good point. But that still leaves us with an alarming number of those who have been hospitalized and died due to the flu or flu-related complications. Those numbers are also unusually high.
I just don't think the POTUS needs to be using this as a distraction.
I don’t believe he is. He is correctly taking this very seriously and using all the tools at his disposal to help mitigate a real pandemic that has the potential to mutate. I agree the media shouldn’t overstate the danger of the current strain but the government can’t afford to miss any step here.
Thanks for a great discussion.
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