Tuesday, July 25, 2006

What Peace?

John K Sent This To Me.

I thought people who won Nobel Peace prizes were supposed to, I don't know, preach peace and what not. Well, not all of them do. Betty Williams, who was awared the peace prize 30 years ago, told a group of Austrailan schoolchildren
Right now, I would love to kill George Bush
Never mind al-Qaeda or Hezbollah, like any good Liberal, it's all W's fault. I love stupid people. At least she questions why she was awared the prize. I'll give her points for being honest.

Also,
It's our duty as human beings, whatever age we are, to become the protectors of human life
I guess not all life.
Story

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8 comments:

Za said...

Here's a tick list for you, just so's we can rate threats.

Do the subjects:
- Disregard international opinion for their own
- Disregard national law
- Disregard international law
- Habitually lie to the public
- Use religion as an excuse for their policies
- Imprison people without charge
- Invade other nations
- Destroy governments they dislike
- Have one of the largest arsenals on the planet

Now on that list, Hamas and Hezbollah rank highly I'll grant you - both sit at 6 out of 9. Bush however, has a 9 out of 9, and note the three which distinguish him from them:
- Invade other nations (the use of invade in this instance is the primary definition - To enter by force in order to conquer, something neither Hamas nor Hezbollah have attempted, although in a less strict sense I will allow that entering into Israel and kidnapping military personnel could count, but that's an act of war, rather than an invasion)
- Destroy governments they dislike (unless you can point to an instance I'm forgetting?)
- Have one of the largest arsenals on the planet (and I believe we're all in agreement that neither Hamas nor Hezbollah rank in comparison to the US)

So in regards to the suggestion that Bush is a bigger threat than Hamas or Hezbollah, who I might add, are limited to their local political context (their home states/nations and the surrounding states), Bush does rank higher as a threat. Combine this with the fact that he's using the same policies that Reagan demonstrated to fail abysmally when combatting terrorism, and he's not the best choice for commander in chief. If you would like me to cite examples for all of the above, I'm perfectly willing to do so.

I make no defense of course, for the hypocrisy innate in the killing/protection statements.

John K said...

Your right Za; he (Bush) and my country ARE a threat. A threat to libral wackjobs and Facists like yourself and the governments or peoples like you and your idiotic morass advocate.
Its not going to change so live with it or die with it. We just don't give a rats ass about pussies like you.

Za said...

1) I'm not a liberal.
2) I'm not a fascist (fascism is right-wing, look it up).
3) Liberalism and fascism are not even remotely similar.
4) You have yet to delineate why "we" are deserving of being threatened.
5) You have failed to demonstrate that there is any sensibility to your government's (or your own) actions.

So all in all, you're looking more like a ranting maniac.

reagan80 said...

"fascism is right-wing, look it up"

I did....

http://tinyurl.com/lla7z

BTW, Jacques Chirac is considered to be a "conservative" in Europe. In general, Western Europe is so far to the left that Bill Clinton would be considered a "right-winger" by the Continentals.

Za said...

Clinton WAS a right-winger - he was pro-capitalism, and his policies were towards stabilising the economy. He was just left of the Republicans, whom most of the world hold to be far right-wing.

Oxford English Dictionary:
fascism

/fashiz’m/

• noun 1 an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government. 2 extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

Longman's Dictionary:
fas‧cis‧m [See pronunciation table in "How to use dictionary" pages] [uncountable]
PPG a right-wing political system in which people's lives are completely controlled by the state and no political opposition is allowed

iAmericanSpirit Political Dictionary:
fascism - a nationalistic, authoritarian, anti-communist movement founded by Benito Mussolini in Italy in 1919. Fascism was a response to the economic hardship and social disorder that ensued after the end of World War I. The main elements of fascism were pride in the nation, anti-Marxism, the complete rejection of parliamentary democracy, the cultivation of military virtues, strong government, and loyalty to a strong leader.

Wikipedia:
Fascism is a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.

Frankly, your John J. Ray is on his own on that one. The Nazis continuously ranted about how the Communists needed destroying (and held them to be a Jewish conspiracy), allied themselves with Mussolini, and Hitler himself was NEVER a leftist - he worked to destroy communist uprisings. So he's spouting crap.

DIRTY BIRD said...

Well one thing for sure they sure don bring about peace by holding woodstock concerts or by sticking a candle on a little paper boat and floating them down rivers or by releasing little helium balloons or by eating wacky diets or by watching the birth of a white buffalo or by riding your bicycle naked no matter what they have tried

reagan80 said...

"The Nazis continuously ranted about how the Communists needed destroying"

That doesn't prove that they weren't Left-wing. It's not unnatural for similar Leftist groups to start killing each other over nuance.

Have you forgotten about the Chinese-Soviet schism? The Sino-Soviet border conflict of 1969? The Chinese invasion of Soviet-backed Vietnam? The Vietnamese invasion of Chinese-backed Cambodia? Stalin vs. Trotsky?

The largest tank battle of the Cold War was fought between Commies: the Chinese and the Soviets. Mao(China) hated Khruschev(USSR) so much that he formed an alliance with the anti-Communist Nixon(USA).



"and held them to be a Jewish conspiracy"

Karl Marx, co-founder of Communism, once wrote this:(http://tinyurl.com/s7dqc)

["Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew -- not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Jewry, would be the self-emancipation of our time.... We recognize in Jewry, therefore, a general present-time-oriented anti-social element, an element which through historical development -- to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed -- has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily dissolve itself. In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Jewry".]



"allied themselves with Mussolini"

Mussolini was also a Marxist before he came up with a socialist "third way"(fascism).

At one point, Mussolini dismissed Hitler as a "barbarian, a criminal and a pederast". This was before they became allies. Mussolini, the fascist, also refused to deport Jews to Hitler's death camps. In 1938, he even tried to get the Pope to excommunicate Hitler.

See? There's that "fraternal" rivalry again. Even fellow Fascists can hardly get along.



"Hitler himself was NEVER a leftist"

My Jon Ray link has enough information to prove that he was. That's where all of these points came from. Those definitions can also be shot down with Ray's "crap".

Za said...

That doesn't prove that they weren't Left-wing. It's not unnatural for similar Leftist groups to start killing each other over nuance.
Except that the Nazis held all communism and socialism to be of Jewish origin. So it's not a difference of opinion, it's a loathing of any connection.

As I said, if you look at Hitler's policies, he nationalised military industries, but expanded capitalism in all other industries, and traded widely. The US even got a hand in it (Ford and General Motors made tanks for the Nazis, Coca-Cola invented Fanta for them when they couldn't continue bringing in Coke, etc). He was corporatist - and corporatism is antithetical to socialism and communism.

Karl Marx, co-founder of Communism, once wrote this
Doesn't change the fact that the Nazis mixed their anti-Jew propaganda with anti-socialism and anti-communism and anti-Marxist propaganda. The Nazis also killed off their leftist members in the Night of Long Knives. They also banned all socialist literature. I can keep going with this if you want, but they weren't socialist, and were radically opposed to socialism.

Mussolini was also a Marxist before he came up with a socialist "third way"(fascism).
Fascism is widely regarded as a right-wing ideology. Look it up in any political dictionary, and you will find it listed as such. And the "third way" is economic liberalism - a capitalist doctrine.

My Jon Ray link has enough information to prove that he was.
Only if you discount all of Hitler's policies and most of Hitler's speeches.