Sunday, May 21, 2006

Illegals Granted Social Security

I've been sick the last few days, so I don't really feel like writting out a post. You can read this for yourselves and be pissed off.
Filed under Politics & US/Mexico Border

Technorati Tags: , , ,

17 comments:

highboy said...

Yep. And I'm pissed off. Thanks.

Za said...

lol - that's a crazy debate if ever I heard one.

"Illegal workers pay taxes that the government should never receive since they should never have been working in the first place... so they should get the benefits of those taxes".

Vs

"Illegal immigrants shouldn't get access to federal benefits."

John K said...

Illegals pay NO taxes.. at all or else thier status as "Illegal" would be discovered and the employers would also be in trouble.
But illegals soak up more than 42% of ALL social services.

Za said...

Income tax John. You know, that thing they automatically take from your wages before giving you them?

John K said...

They don't pay because Illegals are not documented. I suppose you know all about that having so many jobs in your short college career.

Za said...

So you're trying to say that something that is AUTOMATICALLY taken out of your paycheck, is not being taken out of their paycheck?

John K said...

Yes! Because they have not filled out any w2 forms! What part of "undocumented" do you not understand?

Za said...

What part of "congressmen say you're wrong" don't you understand? It's from the article itself!

"We all know that millions of undocumented immigrants pay Social Security and Medicare taxes for years and sometimes decades while they work to contribute to our economy," said Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican.

3rd freaking paragraph! You're wrong. Simple as that.

James said...

Benefits are for US citizens so they shouldnt get them. Many illegals work under a cash only business and therefore never pay taxes.

The ones that do are using stolen or false social security cards. They are breaking several laws to even get the paycheck.

Do you feel sorry for the bankrobber who drops some cash when getting away? Does he deserve it back?

Za said...

It's hardly "bankrobbing" though. They provide labour for the US market and in return, get paid. Point out a single instance of bankrobbing that is analogous.

James said...

Its an American law concept "fruit of the poisoned tree", Im not sure about other countries. If you break the law then anything after that point is tainted.

By working they are breaking the law. They can only work under a false or invalid Social Security number.

In the US it is illegal for a lawbreaker to profit from his crime. Its the reason serial killers cant sell their books and get any money. Its the reason drug dealers have their assets seized.

Za said...

But in turn that should mean that anyone who employed an illegal immigrant should have the fruits of that labour removed from them - employing these people is illegal, remember?

So people who employed them as janitors or house cleaners should have their houses/shopping centres/businesses governmentally untidied perhaps?

Or maybe people who had their groceries sold to them by an illegal immigrant should have them confiscated? And the grocery stores should have their goods repacked so that way a legal American could unpack them?

And the taxes these people paid through these false social security numbers - that should go back to their employers, yes? Wait, no, they employed them in the first place, so it should go back to their customers, right? Let's get the NSA on that.

You're only looking at it from the viewpoint of personal effects. These people did a lot of work for the US, so the fact that they have a fake social security number doesn't change that. It wasn't that their working was really illegal anyway, it's just that they were illegal for being there, which is stupid.

James said...

These people did a lot of work for the US, so the fact that they have a fake social security number doesn't change that.
As demonstrated above it does no matter how much people wish it wasnt so. Either the law means something or it doesnt.

It wasn't that their working was really illegal anyway
Actually you are mistaken.

You can only pay taxes with a social security card.
Being they were illegal that means they made up one or stole one they arent elligable for a real one.
In the US it is ILLEGAL to work without one that is a violation of the law.
The fact that the employer saw the card and deducted taxes and file the paperwork on it means he "reasonably" (by the legal standard) verified their legality so the rest of your argument doesnt even apply.

Its not employing an illegal that is illegal it is knowingly employing one.

Za said...

As demonstrated above it does no matter how much people wish it wasnt so. Either the law means something or it doesnt.
Some laws need changing.

You can only pay taxes with a social security card.
Being they were illegal that means they made up one or stole one they arent elligable for a real one.
In the US it is ILLEGAL to work without one that is a violation of the law.

Yes, it's illegal. But if it's no different to them working with a legal one, then why? I mean, they pay the taxes, they do the work - it's not different to them having a legal file.

Its not employing an illegal that is illegal it is knowingly employing one.
And I point you in the direction of all the companies that they were going to do in for employing illegals. The rest of my argument applies to them at the very least.

Indian Chris said...

What laws? The ones you don't agree with or the one's I don't agree with?

James said...

Yes, it's illegal. But if it's no different to them working with a legal one, then why? I mean, they pay the taxes, they do the work - it's not different to them having a legal file.

Yeah the difference is they dont get paid!

I agree with companies employing legals being cracked down on and that is why I put "by the legal standard". But right now the standard in America is if you have a Social Security Card you can work. If the illegals have one what is the employer supposed to do? They met their standard, well that and the box you check on your app that states that you swear you are elligable to work in the US.

I agree Chris what happens if we all just start ignoring the laws we dont like? Most of us would go to jail, well unless we are illegals that is.

Za said...

What laws? The ones you don't agree with or the one's I don't agree with?
The ones that interfere with reality. Fact is that these people added to your economic prosperity. In practical terms, they did nothing different to any other American citizen - they worked, they payed taxes. Exactly the same. It's just they had a fake ID to do it under.

It's got nothing to do with whether an individual "likes" a law or not - it's just pedantry to differentiate when the end is the exact same.

Yeah the difference is they dont get paid!
How do you mean?