Monday, October 2, 2006

Democrats & Mark Foley

The next time you see Democrats grandstanding and beating their chests professing their false anger at Congressman Mark Foley and Speaker Dennis Hastert, just remember that their hero pardoned Mel Reynolds.

13 comments:

Za said...

And the Republicans had to have a candidate step down over money laundering charges.

This kind of tit-for-tat stuff is not worth getting into. Both Republicans and Democrats are just as bad as each other.

Za said...

Oh, just one question though - why do you say the Democrats only have false anger?

I mean, that would be like saying the Republicans showed false anger over the Lewinsky scandal. Or false anger over the pardoning of Mel Reynolds for that matter.

People have a right to be angry about the Foley thing - the guy was the chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, and it turns out he was hitting on minors. That's a breach of trust.

Za said...

Sorry - one more thing before I go to give a seminar on social policy in rural vs urban areas...

Why do you always attack in response to these things. Someone in the Republican party does something wrong, you instantly attack the Democrats. No mention whatsoever of preventing something going wrong on your side again. No suggestion that perhaps we need to fix these problems to make the Republican party more moral. It's always "Oh, but the Democrats are worse".

I personally don't see that as constructive or intelligent reasoning, and were I in the same situation, I'd say that firstly, it was good that he had the grace to step down instead of trying to avoid it, but it needs to be stopped from happening again since it sullies the Republican party to let this sort of thing go on.

As I've said elsewhere, if you want to make a moral stand, don’t stand up with crooks. You're obviously big on the moral stands, but I don't see any willingness to apply those morals to your own party.

Indian Chris said...

Both Republicans and Democrats are just as bad as each other.
Agreed.

why do you say the Democrats only have false anger?
Because if it were real anger, and not just a show for next months voters, they would have been just a pissed that Clinton pardoned Reynolds. And I don't recall that anger. I could be wrong though.

Why do you always attack in response to these things
It wasn't an attack. I was just showing the hypocrisy. Refer to the answer above.

Za said...

Because if it were real anger, and not just a show for next months voters, they would have been just a pissed that Clinton pardoned Reynolds. And I don't recall that anger. I could be wrong though.
I could say the same about Republicans and DeLay (or even Bush). If they were truly angry at Clinton committing perjury, and thus lying to the American people, they'd be just as pissed off at DeLay for trying to convince everyone that it never happened, or Bush, whom you yourself have said told lies to get us into Iraq.

loboinok said...

or Bush, whom you yourself have said told lies to get us into Iraq.

What lies would those be?

Za said...

Oh, I'm sorry, you're right, I should have said the Bush administration, since it actually covers several people all endorsed by Bush. The Bush administration stated among other things, that the Iraq war probably woudn't go longer than 6 months (Rumsfeld, 2/7/03 - "It is not knowable how long that conflict would last. It could last, you know, six days, six weeks, I doubt six months."), that they knew Saddam was actively trying to create a nuclear weapon (Rice, 9/10/02 - "We know that [Saddam] is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon."), that they knew with absolute certainty where the WMDs were (Rumsfeld, 3/30/03 - "We know where [the weapons] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, north and south somewhat."), and there was no doubt at all that Saddam had WMDs (Cheney 8/26/02 - "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."). Not to mention the absurd claim that Iraq could finance its own reconstruction (Wolfowitz, 3/27/03 - "We're dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.").

All of these statements were officially endorsed by Bush, and were made to support his assertions that Saddam was a threat to the US, despite the fact that none of the above was in the least in line with CIA reports for that time. Plenty of doubts about the things there apparently were no doubts about, and some of their statements were out and out fabrications.

Chris himself has previously stated that Bush lied about Iraq, but that it was justified because we had to go in there.

Za said...

Oh, and here's one straight from the horse's mouth:
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard, and VX nerve agent."
- State of the Union 2003

loboinok said...

My comments are not being posted.

loboinok said...

that they knew Saddam was actively trying to create a nuclear weapon (Rice, 9/10/02 - "We know that [Saddam] is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon.")

America is threatened by an "unholy axis":

"We must exercise responsibility not just at home, but around the world. On the eve of a new century, we have the power and the duty to build a new era of peace and security.

We must combat an unholy axis of new threats from terrorists, international criminals, and drug traffickers. These 21st century predators feed on technology and the free flow of information... And they will be all the more lethal if weapons of mass destruction fall into their hands.

Together, we must confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons and the outlaw states, terrorists, and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them."

President Clinton
State of the Union address
January 27, 1998

http://clinton5.nara.gov/textonly/WH/SOTU98/address.html
_________________________________

"Iraq is a long way from Ohio, but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."

Madeleine Albright, President Clinton's Secretary of State
Town Hall Meeting on Iraq at Ohio State University
February 18, 1998
http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1998/02/20/98022006_tpo.html
_________________________________

and there was no doubt at all that Saddam had WMDs (Cheney 8/26/02 - "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.")


"In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now -- a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program."

President Clinton
Address to Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff
February 17, 1998
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/
__________________________________

"Imagine the consequences if Saddam fails to comply and we fail to act. Saddam will be emboldened, believing the international community has lost its will. He will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. And some day, some way, I am certain, he will use that arsenal again, as he has ten times since 1983."

Sandy Berger, President Clinton's National Security Advisor
Town Hall Meeting on Iraq at Ohio State University
February 18, 1998
http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1998/02/20/98022006_tpo.html
___________________________________

"Dear Mr. President: ... We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraq sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

Sincerely,

Carl Levin, Joe Lieberman, Frank R. Lautenberg, Dick Lugar, Kit Bond, Jon Kyl, Chris Dodd, John McCain, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Alfonse D'Amato, Bob Kerrey, Pete V. Domenici, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Mikulski, Thomas Daschle, John Breaux, Tim Johnson, Daniel K. Inouye, Arlen Specter, James Inhofe, Strom Thurmond, Mary L. Landrieu, Wendell Ford, John Kerry, Chuck Grassley, Jesse Helms, Rick Santorum.

Letter to President Clinton
Signed by Senators Tom Daschle, John Kerry and others
October 9, 1998
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Letters,%20reports%20and%20statements/levin-10-9-98.html
___________________________________

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."

Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (Democrat, California)
Statement on US Led Military Strike Against Iraq
December 16, 1998
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/priraq1.htm
___________________________________

that they knew with absolute certainty where the WMDs were (Rumsfeld, 3/30/03

March 2003 Iraqi Document: Orders to Hide Weapons In Underground Shelters (Pentagon Translation)

Iraqi Dissident Talks About WMD Moved to Syria

2002 Document: Chemical Material Hidden Underground

Undated Document: Change Chemical, Nuclear, And Missiles Sites for Fear of Western Attack

Iraqi Documents Rebut the Senate Intelligence Report on WMD.

http://iraqdocs.blogspot.com/
____________________________________

despite the fact that none of the above was in the least in line with CIA reports for that time.

I'm sure all the Libs listed above would love to agree with you, but since they are already on record.....

Oh, and here's one straight from the horse's mouth:
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard, and VX nerve agent."

- State of the Union 2003

“The nerve agent VX is one of the most toxic ever developed.

13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi Air Force between 1983 and 1988, while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tonnes.”

Dr. Hans Blix, Chief UN Weapons Inspector
Addressing the UN Security Council
January 27, 2003
http://www.un.org/apps/news/infocusnewsiraq.asp?NewsID=354&sID=6

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/27/sprj.irq.transcript.blix

2003 UN Report: Iraq Sulfur Mustard Gas Chemical Weapons Have High Quality After 12 years of Storage

2001 Top Secret Document: Production of Prohibited Nerve Gas Detectors

http://iraqdocs.blogspot.com/

Also, see above quotes.

loboinok said...

Forgot a couple...

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

Indian Chris said...

Damn. Maybe if I had your dedication and patients when looking up things this blog would be better than it is. Good job, lobo.

loboinok said...

I like your site. Nice mix of topics, resident troll who usually isn't worth responding to, until it starts making knothead stupid statements.

There are more quotes and info on my site, if you want to use them in the future.

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